01/24/2006 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
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| HB83 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| HB 83 | |||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
January 24, 2006
3:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Gene Therriault, Chair
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair
Senator Charlie Huggins
Senator Bettye Davis
Senator Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 83(FIN)
"An Act relating to the Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety
Commission; and providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 83
SHORT TITLE: SEISMIC HAZARDS SAFETY COMMISSION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) LEDOUX
01/19/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/19/05 (H) MLV, STA, FIN
02/03/05 (H) MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/03/05 (H) Moved CSHB 83(MLV) Out of Committee
02/03/05 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
02/04/05 (H) MLV RPT CS(MLV) NT 6DP
02/04/05 (H) DP: MCGUIRE, CISSNA, ELKINS, DAHLSTROM,
GRUENBERG, LYNN
03/08/05 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/08/05 (H) Moved CSHB 83(MLV) Out of Committee
03/08/05 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/09/05 (H) STA RPT CS(MLV) NT 7DP
03/09/05 (H) DP: GARDNER, LYNN, GATTO, ELKINS,
GRUENBERG, RAMRAS, SEATON
03/29/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/29/05 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
04/01/05 (H) FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/01/05 (H) Heard & Held
04/01/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/07/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/07/05 (H) Moved CSHB 83(FIN) Out of Committee
04/07/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/08/05 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 6DP 4NR
04/08/05 (H) DP: CROFT, FOSTER, MOSES, WEYHRAUCH,
MEYER, CHENAULT;
04/08/05 (H) NR: HAWKER, HOLM, STOLTZE, KELLY
04/13/05 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
04/13/05 (H) VERSION: CSHB 83(FIN)
04/14/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/14/05 (S) STA, FIN
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 83
Michael Menge, Commissioner Designee
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Pat Davidson, Legislative Auditor
Legislative Audit Division
P.O. Box 113300
Juneau, AK 99811-3300
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions related to HB 83
John Aho, Ph.D., Chair
Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission
2015 Shepherdia Drive
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Roger Schnell, DMVA Representative
Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs
P.O. Box 5800
Fort Richardson, AK 99505-0800
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Dennis Nottingham, Public Member
Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission
1506 West 36th Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Linda Freed, Manager
City of Kodiak
710 Mill Bay Road
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Gary Carver, Ph.D., Vice-Chair
Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission
Kodiak Island Borough Planning & Zoning Commission
710 Mill Bay Road
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Rod Combellick, DNR Representative
Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission
Department of Natural 'Resources
P.O. Box 82422
Fairbanks, AK 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
David Liebersbach, Director
Alaska Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management
P.O. Box 5750
Fort Richardson, AK 99505-5750
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
Sheldon Winters, Lobbyist
State Farm Insurance
3000 Vintage Blvd.
STE. 100
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 83
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR GENE THERRIAULT called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:35:13 PM. Present were Senators
Elton, Wagoner, Huggins, Davis and Chair Therriault.
CSHB 83(FIN)-SEISMIC HAZARDS SAFETY COMMISSION
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced HB 83 to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE GABRIELLE LEDOUX, Sponsor of HB 83, explained
that the bill extends the sunset date of the Alaska Seismic
Hazards Safety Commission, adds tsunamis to the purview of the
commission, and increases the commission membership from 9 to 11
to provide more local representation.
She reported that because neither Governor Murkowski nor
Governor Knowles had appointed anyone to the commission,
Legislative Budget and Audit initially recommended not extending
the sunset date. However, all commission positions are currently
filled and two meeting have been held.
3:37:54 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT noted that frequent reference to "tsunami" is
inserted throughout the text of the bill. He further noted that
since commission appointments have been made since the bill
passed the House, the contingent language on page 3, Sections 6
and 7 could be removed. Because the bill title is broad it
wouldn't be affected by the changes.
REPRESENTATIVE LeDOUX voiced agreement.
3:39:10 PM
SENATOR KIM ELTON said he assumed that "tsunami" would be
covered as a type of seismic activity. He articulated the
concern that if that's correct, then specifically mentioning
tsunamis might exclude other events that could occur as a result
of a seismic event. For example a seismic event could cause an
avalanche.
REPRESENTATIVE LeDOUX agreed that the point is valid and
acknowledged that she hadn't discussed with issue with
legislative legal.
3:41:14 PM
SENATOR ELTON expressed support for the bill and reiterated his
concern about potentially narrowing the commission's scope.
REPRESENTATIVE LeDOUX replied narrowing the scope was not the
intention.
CHAIR THERRIAULT agreed there's an inherent problem with lists
because it's open to question whether or not an omission infers
an intention to leave an item off the list.
3:42:06 PM
MICHAEL MENGE, Commissioner Designee, Department of Natural
Resources, expressed support for the bill. He observed that the
commission is responsible for remaining mindful of what can
occur as a result of seismic activity and keeping preparedness
at the forefront even when there is no recent event.
He related that the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS) crosses
a fault line and although there had been no discernable movement
for years, the engineers took seismic activity into
consideration during design and construction. In 2002 a
magnitude 7.9 event occurred that moved the pipeline nearly 20
feet, but there was no decrease in flow. Planning for such an
event saved the state hundreds of millions of dollars and
avoided catastrophic environmental consequences.
He reiterated DNR support for the bill and said he understands
that the division in Fairbanks is able to accommodate the
proposed changes without any additional financial support.
In response to Senator Elton's concern, he said he would
certainly seek clarification of the issue because landslides are
a significant risk associated with earthquakes.
3:45:13 PM
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER reviewed the zero fiscal notes and
questioned whether travel and associated cost might be
anticipated in the future.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE MENGE replied it should be minimal. The
original budget was $10,000 and $6,000 is remaining. He
acknowledged that as the activity level increases, required
support would increase as well.
3:46:44 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked Pat Davidson to outline the history of
the appropriation.
3:47:24 PM
PAT DAVIDSON, Division of Legislative Audit, explained that the
commission was established in 2002 and that $33,500 was
appropriated to the governor's office. At the end of FY03 the
money was swept into a reserve fund. In 2004 the commission was
transferred to DNR and $28,900 was placed in the geological
development base-budget. The former commissioner decided that
funding was too large and allocated $10,000 for the commission.
Upon review, she found no particular increases or decreases
indicated in the geological development budget transactions for
FY06 and FY07.
3:48:55 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked Ms. Davidson if she had any points to
bring forward regarding the audit.
MS. DAVIDSON reported that the recommendation to terminate the
commission was made simply because it was non-functioning at
that time. However, overwhelming legislative support for
continuing the commission was subsequently noted.
The recommendation to add two more local government members was
made because the most tangible mitigation efforts occur in
building codes and zoning ordinances, which local governments
control. The increased representation will make it a little
easier to get from the discussion phase to tangible efforts, she
said.
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked if the recommendations made in the audit
report had been followed.
MS. DAVIDSON replied just nine commissioners were appointed.
3:50:25 PM
SENATOR ELTON pointed out that the latest bill version increases
the representation to 11 members.
CHAIR THERRIAULT thanked him for that information and opened
public testimony.
3:50:57 PM
JOHN AHO Ph.D., Chair, Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission,
testified via teleconference and gave background information
regarding his 30-year engineering career in Alaska. His
background is structural dynamics and earthquake engineering and
much of his career related to earthquake risk mitigation
activities.
3:52:13 PM
He reported that because Alaska has the highest earthquake
hazard in the nation, there is a continuing need for the
existing commission. The goal is to reduce earthquake risk by
supporting scientific advancement, practicing earthquake
engineering, and increasing the understanding of the impacts of
earthquakes. Also, the commission can provide a means for
integrating public, private, local and state government input
for making seismic risk decisions.
He outlined the three meetings the commission has held since the
appointments were made as well as the presentation he gave in
Juneau. He noted that the Juneau Emergency Response Commission
passed a supporting resolution after his presentation and other
groups have indicated that they too would be sending supporting
letters.
Alaska is fortunate not to have had a devastating earthquake
since 1964, but the 2002 Denali earthquake was a reminder of
what can happen, he said. It's just a matter of time before a
catastrophic earthquake occurs and this type of commission is
needed to provide leadership and guidance before and after an
earthquake. It can be instrumental in affecting life and
property safety for future generations.
3:56:17 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked him to comment on the issue of adding the
words "and tsunami" to the statutes.
DR. AHO said he understands why "tsunami" was specifically
mentioned, but he's not sure what it means in terms of
eliminating other hazards that might result from seismic
activity. He recognizes seismic hazards as anything that happens
as a result of strong earth movement.
CHAIR THERRIAULT recognized Roger Schnell.
ROGER SCHNELL, member, Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety Commission,
testified via teleconference. He echoed the chair's position and
recommended that the commission be extended.
3:58:06 PM
DENNIS NOTTINGHAM, Public Member, Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety
Commission, testified via teleconference and reported that he
has lived in Alaska approximately 45 years. He complemented
Commissioner Menge for having made some very good points.
He reported that he played a significant part in designing the
Trans-Alaska Pipeline System, which included addressing the
Denali fault. He is pleased that the engineering has been
successful because not much was known about earthquake design in
the early 1970s. In fact, that was one of the first projects
that was designed with seismic events in mind.
Addressing the question of the wisdom of specifically listing
tsunamis, he explained that tsunamis are a standalone
phenomenon. A landslide could, in the absence of a seismic
event, cause what is referred to as a local tsunami. That's what
happened in Skagway some years ago when a massive submarine
landslide occurred. He opined that it caused great confusion in
state government because there was no commission such as this to
shed light on the situation. There simply wasn't the back up in
the state to realize what had happened.
He recommended passing the bill with the tsunami language
included because "it is distinct, in some cases."
4:00:05 PM
SENATOR ELTON agreed that the Skagway slide is an excellent
example of a tsunami that wasn't caused by a seismic event. He
then mentioned the example of the landslide in Lituya Bay, which
was caused by a seismic event.
He emphasized that he had no problem adding "tsunami" as long as
there was legal assurance that the addition wouldn't preclude
other events that weren't specifically mentioned.
4:00:57 PM
LINDA FREED, Local Government Representative, Alaska Seismic
Hazards Safety Commission, testified via teleconference. She
advised that she was speaking as the city manager of the City of
Kodiak and that the city passed a resolution supporting the
commission. Kodiak is subject to the potential risk of both
earthquakes and tsunamis and it sees the need for this
commission to provide advice and recommendations to protect its
citizens. In fact, the City of Kodiak considers this so
important that it is paying for her position on the commission.
In closing she reported that a number of citizens have expressed
surprise that a sunset date had been placed on the commission in
the first place and questioned whether a three-year sunset is
appropriate.
4:03:23 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT responded all boards and commissions in the
state have periodic sunset review by the Legislature. Indeed it
was the sunset review that highlighted the dormancy issue and
spurred the administration to make the commission appointments.
4:03:53 PM
GARY CARVER, Ph.D., Vice-Chair, Alaska Seismic Hazards Safety
Commission and Kodiak Island Borough Planning & Zoning
Commission member, testified via teleconference. He explained
that he is a geologist and has worked in the area of earthquake
hazard and safety for about 35 years.
After receiving his doctorate, one of his first jobs was to
collaborate in identifying the fault hazards for alignment and
construction of the TAPS. He admitted that he was very worried
on November 3, 2002 when he learned about the 7.9 magnitude
earthquake along the Denali Fault, but suggested that it is a
good example of how applying knowledge in advance of an event
yields great benefit. The pipe didn't fail and was actually up
and operating within 60 hours, which speaks with authority to
the wisdom of having this type commission to guide the state and
municipalities with regard to seismic hazards.
He opined the commission has a lot of work to do since Alaska
has a significant number of the earthquakes that occur in the
world and in large part they occur in the more populated regions
of the state.
The City of Kodiak recently assessed its schools for seismic
safety and several were found in need of retrofitting. This is
the kind of guidance that the commission could provide to other
communities, he concluded.
4:08:17 PM
ROD COMBELLICK, Deputy Director, Division of Geologic and
Geophysical Surveys, Department of Natural Resources, testified
via teleconference. He said he would provide his perspective as
a geologist and the DNR representative on the commission.
He explained that geologists see the scientific side of
earthquakes. In particular they see evidence of prehistoric
earthquakes in the geologic record, which offers long-term
information about the frequency of such events. In addition
geologists see the geologic effects of earthquakes that are due
to ground failures, landslides, and tsunamis. This information
gives an idea of the variability in the destructive potential of
such events.
He cautioned that scientific information is of no use unless
it's used to determine land use, building codes and planning
practices to affect cost-effective public policy designed to
reduce loss and save lives. This is already taking place in
Alaska, but there isn't a great deal of coordination. The Alaska
Seismic Hazards Safety Commission brings these interests
together in a common forum with the goal of increasing seismic
safety. He urged passage of HB 83.
4:11:11 PM
DAVID LIEBERSBACH, Director, Alaska Division of Homeland
Security and Emergency Management, testified via teleconference
in support of the bill. He made several clarifying points.
First, his agency has passed a resolution in support of HB 83.
Second, most western states have a seismic commission and it's
reasonable that Alaska continue with one since it is so active
seismically. He advised that he is vice-chair of the Western
State Seismic Policy Council and it is expanding its membership
to include a representative from the seismic safety commissions
of each state or province. Membership would provide opportunity
for valuable information sharing, he opined.
The Skagway landslide was mentioned as a non-seismic tsunami,
but volcano activity was not mentioned in that regard. One of
the early concerns related to the recent St. Augustine volcanic
activity was that there could be an underwater blowout. If that
had occurred there was potential for a tsunami and it doesn't
take a huge one to kill people or destroy a lot of property. In
conclusion he said the original definition for tsunami is harbor
wave.
4:15:22 PM
SHELDON WINTERS, Lobbyist for State Farm, stated support for
extending the commission.
4:15:53 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced that he intended to have a committee
substitute (CS) drafted and he would ask about the wisdom of
specifically referencing tsunamis. He observed that the findings
section of the original bill doesn't give any indication of how
broad the interpretation is meant to be.
Further discussion is also needed with regard to the length of
the extension. Even though the auditors suggested a longer
extension, he wanted the committee members to weigh in since the
commission had particular difficulty getting started.
4:17:05 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said it was a lack of attention by various
governors' offices that caused the difficulty and all
indications are that the commission will be active, which is why
he would recommend a 10-year sunset.
SENATOR ELTON suggested extending the terms out far enough to
get staggered terms going.
CHAIR THERRIAULT said he would discuss the issue with the
auditor and decide whether a 7-year extension would make sense.
4:18:45 PM
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced he would hold CSHB 83(FIN) in
committee.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Therriault adjourned the meeting at 4:18:51 PM.
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